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SimenN
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2009, 04:19:19 am » |
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Hey there Mr J. Hmm, i would recormend the 2-parts inventions and chorales by JS Bach. You can download a midi or the score and play and analyze from there. Theory about harmony and counterpoint is very important, do you know this? I am not realy the one to help you out here, im sure the other and more experienced members will help you out, they realy know their stuff. Btw, i realy like your theme, its a very good theme. You need to post a score, there are very hard to help without a score to look at  SimenN |
I draw a line at Mozarts death
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The J
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2009, 05:46:17 pm » |
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thank so much, i dont have alot of people to show them my scores...(i added the score above) i know jazz harmony very well, i've mastered it for years, this harmoney is abit different, it actually more flexible than jazz -composition-wise...i really liked your fuges, there is no problem to get advice from someone such as you. p.s. another one in half an hour work..no score yet http://soundcloud.com/the-j/i-should-trythe idea was real firm at first, then it went and disappeared in the process, so some sleepy melody came instead p.s. the damn scores came out too small, just saw it now... will fix later then sorry. |
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« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 05:55:19 pm by The J »
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SimenN
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2009, 07:55:08 pm » |
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Hey there J. I listend to your new tune. It was a very nice melody, but im not sure what style you aimed at? this sounded very much as film music, not so much baroque. Thank you for the compliment. but there is much i have to learn, so its better to get adive from ppl like grantco, moya, palestrina. they know baroque much better then i do  the only thin i can recomend as i said before, is to do 2 part writing, compose a invention of stuff like that, a four part choral is very good for harmony and voice leading. and to learn the baroque language you have to listen to much baroque music and get used not just the technical stuff but the melodic style as well. like regular baroque chord progression etc. you will learn things like this much faster if you listen to a peice and then study the sheet music. SimenN |
I draw a line at Mozarts death
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The J
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Posts: 16
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2009, 09:41:37 am » |
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my main problem in learning this, is that i feel i have at least be able to play what i compose. and i'm no pianist, playing two counterpoint lines is hard. but at least i will try to analyse this harmonically and get the bases of the movement on the theory level..
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grantco
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2009, 07:06:24 am » |
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is it possible? i'm jazz disciplined so all these moving counterpoint lines are pretty hard to master if you dont know what you're doing.
are there any "baroque for noobs" that i can actually hear the changes more slowly and find out more about the style and how to compose, rather than hearing a full blown up composition which is either too fast or incredible techno in the style?
btw i'm new here, so hello everyone sounds like an amazing forum here
Hey there "J." Welcome to the forum. Chances are you're going to need at the very least to read a book (or several!) on basic "common practice" theory, as well as counterpoint, along with listening to and playing numerous pieces from the baroque era. Baroque does work somelike like jazz in that there are certain themes and turns of phrase that are all part of the baroque language. But to understand modulation and "the rules" you're almost certainly going to need to go beyond just listening.... The huge advantage of taking a counterpoint class is that there is a definite structured way to learn counterpoint with assignments which are analyzed and graded by the teacher as you move to more complex things. The problem with doing these things yourself is not having someone to assign and explain these things for you and let you know what works and what doesn't. Grant |
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grantco
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2009, 02:05:48 pm » |
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my main problem in learning this, is that i feel i have at least be able to play what i compose. and i'm no pianist, playing two counterpoint lines is hard. but at least i will try to analyse this harmonically and get the bases of the movement on the theory level..
What instrument do you play to know so much about jazz? |
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The J
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2009, 05:32:10 pm » |
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you can hear me play guitar here www.myspace.com/lehakatjazzalthough i was in a very bad mood when i recorded it with the band, and the concept is very boring, i prepared it for cocktail jazz. i still have to find the time to stop doing compositions and relearn stuff. i've done counterpoint class one semster, but i think i forgot everything. |
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The J
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 05:04:48 pm » |
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i know quite a few classical themes of bach on guitar, that doesnt really help learning the style, just making it easier to compose on guitar, which is kinda boring for me to hear myself on the same instrument i already hear myself about 7 hours a day(teaching). AND the technical level of playing two lines simultaneously in one hand on the guitar let alone three or four which are the minimum in baroque chorals.. i know what interests me, and that is getting a decent level in baroque compositions, to help me write my own music. maybe if i got insane at this i would do something like a guitar concerto, but that is impossible before i know the basics. plus i know piano pretty ok, which is the best tool so far in composing i had, although my next step is writing in a notation program.
i listened to his compositions they are pretty nice and in style (didnt hear spanish style to it as well), there are much better compositions by bach in my opinion but its nice to hear all the same, i wonder how he writes his compositions for other instruments.
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grantco
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i listened to his compositions they are pretty nice and in style (didnt hear spanish style to it as well), there are much better compositions by bach in my opinion but its nice to hear all the same, i wonder how he writes his compositions for other instruments.
Yes, but the point was not to hear baroque music ON the guitar but to see/hear baroque music which was originally written FOR the guitar. As far as I know (quality aside) Bach never wrote ANYTHING originally for guitar. To me the issue was moreso to maybe SEE what actual original baroque music for guitar looked like and how it was written. I don't know if they used notes or tablature. (speaking of which you should check out the lute tablature used by Vox composer Roman Turovsky for his composing!) http://www.polyhymnion.org/tombeau/tombeaux/s/tom-tuma1.pdfBut, be that as it may, many of Vox's composers write full concertos etc. without barely being competent of either recorder or violin etc. At that point its gonna come down to interloaning scores and recordings etc. to see if you can figure out what makes them tick. Ironically I play and teach piano professionally all day long myself, but when it comes to composing I hate the idea of writing things I'll only get to hear when I push a button on my computer so almost everything I write is for keyboard.... |
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The J
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Ironically I play and teach piano professionally all day long myself, but when it comes to composing I hate the idea of writing things I'll only get to hear when I push a button on my computer so almost everything I write is for keyboard....
its the opposite for me, i teach guitar (professionally?) but when it comes to composing i dont want to hear guitar, unless it has real purpose, and in case i want my ear to rest from it, so i love hearing violins cellos etc.. |
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grantco
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Ironically I play and teach piano professionally all day long myself, but when it comes to composing I hate the idea of writing things I'll only get to hear when I push a button on my computer so almost everything I write is for keyboard....
its the opposite for me, i teach guitar (professionally?) but when it comes to composing i dont want to hear guitar, unless it has real purpose, and in case i want my ear to rest from it, so i love hearing violins cellos etc.. Yeah, I've just now slightly gotten into the concept of writing anything that I can't personally use for myself. A solo instrument sonata with a continuo bass is something I've just finished as well as the unaccompanied sonata for cello or gamba just done a few days back. I think if I knew a good violin player and had a cello or gamba person nearby I'd be inclined to write for more ensembles, but where I'm living there is NO early music scene and I can't stand the idea of writing music which would just gather dust with no one to play it live.... |
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SimenN
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Do you have some orchestral works Grant?
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I draw a line at Mozarts death
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grantco
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Do you have some orchestral works Grant?
Hi Simen, Actually absolutely none! My own limitations come from not actually ever attempting to sit down at a computer and write numerous unplayable parts (unplayable on a keyboard anyway) and construct things like concertos etc. So my compositions have advantages and disadvantages, I guess. One advantage being that I know what I write is very idiomatically written for harpsichord and I can use and play the music for myself everyday. But due to that I haven't branched out much into other areas until very recently. So for example the cello sonata is my first and only, as is my first sonata for recorder (or flute) and continuo. And the biggest, most complex thing I've been writing is a sonata for flute with harpsichord obbligato which i've found to be a big challenge because the flute and right hand of the harpsichord part duet with each other, while at the same time needing to make the right hand and left of the keyboard player also work well together as a keyboard part for a single person to play. That said though Gianluca has arranged a few things of mine into larger orchestral versions so I do know that if the occasion arose (as I've said elsewhere there's a part of me not wanting to compose music for non-existent ensembles), the music I write DOES sound way cool in larger arrangements. If I can find the scores and mp3's of these larger things I'll post them for you.... |
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